You are hereHere's One Vote on All-Big 12
Here's One Vote on All-Big 12
Here's one totally unofficial vote for the All-Big 12 Conference basketball team were the season to end today following Kansas' victory at Texas.
Cole Aldrich, Kansas
Marcus Morris, Kansas
James Anderson. Oklahoma State
Jacob Pullen, Kansas State
Damion James, Texas
Player of the Year: Aldrich.
Rookie of the Year: Alec Burks, Colorado
Coach of the Year: Bill Self, Kansas
Someone will note, no doubt, the absence of KU's Sherron Collins. Someone else may note the absence of Missouri's J.T. Tiller, although I bring this up not because I believe Tiller deserves consideration.
To an extent, they are both left off my ballot for the same reason: They're trying to run a show that they should be part of.
Tiller has spent the entire season, except the second half of the Colorado game, impersonating an offensive threat. And failing badly. His exclusion brooks no argument.
Collins, I contend, is too often forcing his way into a role that KU simply does not need him to play. He's up and down for perhaps the same reason that Tiller has had the senior season he is having.
Trying way too hard.
Kansas is beating the good teams it has played because Aldrich is the big man that no one else has. He alters game plans, not simply shots.
Morris has stepped up to be KU's prime offensive threat. As ESPN's Ron Franklin suggested to me a while back, Morris may be KU's MVP.
Pullen's emergence as a leader and offensive threat has made Kansas State.
And Anderson and James are simply the two most unstoppable players in the league.
Now, give me your top five at the mid-point.
Posted in
For someone who has no dog in this fight, you seem to have it out for Collins, even going back to the original post. I'm guessing the only reason you posted an All-Big 12 Team 9 games into the season was so that you could sneak in your lack of enthusiasm for Collins. Now it's gotten to the point where we're going to see updates after each game - but only about Collins since it took someone else to point out Pullen's decline. Why no update on Tiller after his last game?
Do you have any idea how Collins was performing 9 games into last season? How about let's wait to see how this all shakes out.
No MU players here. But two from KU. See, I probably did it so I could toot the horn for Aldrich and Morris. Kind of shoots your anti-KU player conspiracy theory down just a bit.
Updates after each game. No. But see, if it isn't a conspiracy, it doesn't have to have any basis in fact either, right?
He is still the unquestioned leader of the best team in the country. And when the game was in doubt, he came through - hitting a big bucket with 5 or so minutes left and a huge transition bucket after that. You can't win this argument! Sherron, Cole and Marcus Morris are all 1st team all conference players. Cole or Sherron will win POY... if I had a vote... it goes to Sherron.
People don't give A&M enough credit. Undefeated at home until last night, and the hottest team in the big 12 other than KU. That was a GREAT win by KU last night. They took the aggies best shot and still won, on their court.
This is crazy. I'm certainly no Kansas fan, but there is no explanation for leaving Collins off the first team. There won't be one other ballot that leaves him off and he will likely be voted POY. Only a writer with blind hatred towards Kansas could believe otherwise. You'll be on an island with that pick, much like your thoughts about D. Alexander being 1st team all-american.
More interesing (hell, anything is more interesting than your thoughts on Collins) is Pullen vs. Clemente. I can't argue with Pullen, but I think Clemente is the heart and soul of team - much like DeMarre Carroll was to MU last year.
Collins
Aldrich
Anderson
James
Clemente
Collins was 2 for 9 shooting against Texas A&M and 0 for 4 from three-point range.
Yes, Collins has had some good games since the start of Big 12 play. But he has also had these:
Opponent-Overall-Three point shooting
Texas Tech 3-10 1-4
Iowa State 3-10 0-3
Missouri 2-11 0-4
Colorado 6-17 0-5
Texas 3-13 1-4
Iowa State 4-14 3-10
Texas A&M 2-9 0-4
That isn't first-team All Big 12.
Opponent-Overall-Three point shooting
Missouri 4-14 3-9
Texas A&M 4-10 2-6
Colorado 5-14 3-6
Texas 2-15 0-6
OK State 2-15 2-12
Iowa State 4-13 2-7
Jacob Pullen
Thanks
It's not just me who thinks you're crazy, it's everyone else who follows Big 12 basketball. Collins was bad last night, but was very good in many of the other games you noted. So you're suggesting shooting is the only (or at least primary) criteria for inclusion? For a point guard?
That is the definition of crazy. Or at least of someone who has no business writing about basketball.
If he's in a Kansas uniform you can ignore any shortcomings. Because he's in a Kansas uniform.
Hey, I'm a Big Ten guy. I don't have a horse in the game. But I'm here in Big 12 country and watch a lot of college basketball.
Collins certainly has ups and downs, but he's the best guard in this conference and the main reason for KU's success (other than Self). And all of the post-season awards will support that. He will be a nearly unanimous selection by both coaches and writers.
So, once again, you're on an island. You either don't understand basketball or are such an MU homer that you can't recognize Collins for what he is.
Shecky,
Is everyone who disagrees with you a homer? For someone who has no dog in this fight, you sure sound like a fan of one particular school.
Absolutely not. You just haven't presented any legitmate reason for leaving off the leading candidate for POY. You've given some shooting statistics and a personal observation that he's trying to do too much. In the absence of a real argument, I jumped to the conclusion that it's because you are an MU fan and a KU hater. Perhaps I'm mistaken.
There is a body of evidence, however, that shows you to be a MU homer. I recognize that as a beat writer it's challenging (and perhaps not all together desirable) to be objective. Your peers at KSU and KU, however, seem to do a better job of it (or at least hiding their bias).
I apologize if my tone has been less than civil. I do appreciate your posts and enjoy the debate.
On the Collins discussion, here is what Martin Manley of The Star has to say in an exhaustive, statistical, two-part post:
http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1917
Doesn't rank in top 20 in scoring or rebounding, but should be considered? Come on, Man!!!!!
Top 5:
Collins
Aldrich
James
Anderson
Pullen
Tiller has underperformed remarkably all year. As I said in another post, underperforming is the reason I brought Tiller into the conversation, along with Collins. Collins, in my opinion, hasn't measure up either. But he's measure up considerably more than Tiller.
I have two beefs with your post and both include Sherron Collins. First of all, putting JT Tiller and Collins in the same sentence is a joke. If Tiller was half the player Collins is, Mizzou would be a real threat for the conference title.
Second, as good as Pullen is, he isn't a better player than Collins. Game on the line...down by two... who do you want with the ball? Pullen or Collins? Don't get me wrong, Pullen is a great player... and losing out on 1st team to Collins is no slap in the face... but they just aren't on the same level.
My 1st Team:
Cole Aldrich
Marcus Morris
Damion James
James Anderson
Sherron Collins
POY - Sherron Collins
ROY - Alec BUrks
COY - Frank Martin
Collins is so much obviously better than Tiller. Both, however, were on the Wooden pre-season list. Tiller has had the much worse season. But my point was neither was living up to expectations.
Tiller may be underachieving this year but how can you say Collins is? He is the best and most reliable player on the best team in the country. Again I come back to who do you want with the ball when the game is on the line? I can't think of a more clutch player in the country. How many games this season has he single-handedly won for the Hawks? Sherron is the best PG KU has ever had and I know that is BOLD statement due to the great history at KU... but he is a complete player... a leader... a scorer... a distributor... a defender... and most importantly A WINNER.
I can see your point that sometimes it may seem like he is "trying" too much... but I don't agree with it. Most of the time he lets the game come to him... especially in the first half, trying to get others involved on the offensive end. But KU's problem this year has been others not willing to be aggressive. As the game goes on he puts the team on his back and wins the game.... Like a senior point guard should... and that is one of the main reasons why KU is 23-1... the #1 overall seed in the NCAA tournament and the favorites to cut down the nets.
This is more mizzou delusional absurdity from our friend at the Star. It is as if he has watched two KU games all year, UT and the MU game. Collins is the unquestioned leader, most dependable player, the player everyone knows the ball is going to with the game on the line who happens to have led his team, as the point guard, to a 23-1 record, an undefeated conference record in what may be the toughest or 2nd toughest conference and oh yeah, they are rated, overwhelmingly as the number one team in the nation.
You ask any coach in the big 12 who KU's leader is and they will say Collins, ask Self and he will say Collins. Ask him or them who KU's best player is and they will say Collins but our good friend here thinks he knows better. This is classic Mike DeArmond, thinking outside the box when in this case the inside of the box thought is pretty obvious.
No thanks. Bill has been pumping Collins for player of the year, saying that he should win it if his stats improve. Huh? I guess we should award all-american status on what we expect a player should do and not on what he does?
Sorry, folks. You can, and have, called me delusional. But I'm sticking to my guns on this one. KU is a great team and I'll vote for Aldrich and Morris for the highest of league awards. But not Collins. Not unless he deserves it with improved, unselfish play down the stretch.
Your point seems to be that honors should be earned, not given just because it's expected. However, that seems to be just what you're doing with Collins. You don't want to give him any credit because you don't think he's performed up to expectations.
What's your basis? Check his overall stats from last year (when he was named first team Big 12) to what he's doing this year. The numbers are the pretty much the same across the board, with a slightly higher field goal percentage and a better assist-to-turnover ratio. His scoring average is down, but so are his minutes because the Jayhawks are a much better balanced team this year.
You are truly delusional if you think Aldrich and Morris would be where they're at this year without Collins. Of course, you picked James for first team - take a look at where Texas is with him and his 1/2.9 assist-to-turnover ratio and 65% from the free throw line.
there's not going to be one other guard in the big 12, let alone point guard that will recieve one vote for national player of the year. it goes without saying that Collins will recieve a lot of votes, and possibly win national player of the year, let alone first team all big 12.